XPost: alt.cats, rec.pets.cats.health+behav 
 From: XYZ@XYZinvalid.com 
  
 On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:37:18 -0700, Matthew Montchalin 
  wrote: 
  
 >On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Misty9999 wrote: 
 >|On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:38:56 -0700, Matthew Montchalin 
 >| wrote: 
 >| 
 >|>On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 XYZ@XYZinvalid.com wrote: 
 >|>|The rescue people don't realize how much purebred cat owners and 
 >|>|reputable breeders HATE the backyard breeders. 
 >|> 
 >|>Hm.  Do reputable breeders actually take their cats' offspring to 
 >|>veterinarians for DNA testing?  I'd think their reputations actually 
 >|>depend on more than just a wink and a handshake, but on independently 
 >|>verifiable credentials. 
 >| 
 >|I am not a breeder. I have not yet heard of DNA testing. 
 > 
 >It ought to cost something in the $50 to $99 range, like a urinalysis 
 >test for humans.  Surely different organizations offer different 
 >degrees of services for certifying a lineage. 
  
 Since I am not a breeder , I don't know that aspect of it. Maine coons 
 and moggies are just pets to me. 
  
 >|Maine Coon breeders carefully check their studs and queens for cardio 
 >|and hip problems. 
 > 
 >Okay. 
 > 
 >|The whole idea is to try to eliminate genetic defects that are 
 >|common to the breed. 
 > 
 >Breeding for strength and health is thereby facilitated. 
  
 Strength , health and temperament. 
  
 >|I am totally ignorant of how " new " breeds are created. 
 > 
 >This something that could be discussed in us.support.cat-registries, 
 >not just rec.pet.cat.breeding.  You don't suppose that fraud runs 
 >rampant in certain organizations that guarantee the lineages that 
 >are inherent in the pedigrees awarded? 
  
 T.I.C.A. is The International Cat Association. C.F.A. is the Cat 
 Fanciers Association. They are also an international registry. There 
 are other associations , but those are the biggest and best known. 
 There are often disagreements as to what should be a " recognized 
 breed. " I am unaware of any allegations of fraud. 
  
 >|>|The problem is with a certain " militant " type of rescue worker 
 >|>|who can't deal with the idea that some people ONLY want a certain 
 >|>|type of purebred. 
 >|> 
 >|>I wish I had my purebred albino tabby back...  It's a long story... 
 >|> 
 >|>|They take the position that every home given to a purebred is one 
 >|>|less home for a moggie. In their eyes , you are a " cat killer. " 
 >|>| 
 >|>|I suspect that is the main reason for the proposal of 
 >|>|rec.pets.cats.breeds. 
 > 
 >hmm 
  
 Do a Google search of rec.pets.cats. Type in the word purebred. I 
 remember a thread where somebody accused breeders of cat genocide. 
  
 >|>|The real question: Are there enough owners and breeders to support 
 >|>|the group NOW? Over the years many people have left newsgroups 
 >|>|because of the hostility encountered over this issue. Will they 
 >|>|come back? I guess we will find out if and when there is a vote 
 >|>|for rec.pets.cats.breeds 
 >|> 
 >|>It will produce an interesting result.  I was thinking of abstaining 
 >|>until Arthur said he'd probably vote yes, so I am tempted to vote 
 >|>yes, too.  I still am uncertain how these organizations maintain 
 >|>their registries, though.  Are they judging these cats on their 
 >|>genetic makeup, or on whether they are winners of cat shows? 
 >| 
 >|Genetic makeup, as I understand it. 
 > 
 >Then DNA sampling ought to be a good thing, even if a little on the 
 >expensive side. 
  
 I would think so. I am simply too ignorant of DNA testing to know if 
 this would work to eradicate ALL genetic problems . Sonograms and  hip 
 x-rays are pretty expensive too. This is done in the case of breeds 
 that are prone to have Cardio and hip problems. 
  
 >|Once a breed has been accepted into one of the organizations , 
 >|it must conform to certain standards. 
 > 
 >Well, certain organizations might be a lot more reputable than others. 
 > 
 >|Breeders take the cats that they think will win to the shows. 
 > 
 >Based on appearance, I suppose. 
  
 Based on appearance , but bad temperament will get a cat disqualified. 
 The judges are not too pleased with a cat that HISSSSS and does not 
 like to handled. 
  
 >|ALL purebred cats are in the registry. 
 > 
 >If an owner can show that her cat shares the relevant DNA, she could 
 >compel the organization to have her cat recorded?  Assuming the fee 
 >is paid? 
  
  In the case of Maine Coons , a prospective breeder must be sponsored 
 by an established breeder. The breeder has provisional status for two 
 years with the Maine Coon Breeders and Fanciers Association. They must 
 prove that they are willing to follow strict guidelines and make every 
 attempt to improve the breed before they have full status as a Maine 
 Coon breeder. The provisional breeder's cats are allowed in the 
 registry. 
  
 Backyard breeders or people who bought from backyard breeders can NOT 
 simply buy their way into the registry.  These cats are the ones who 
 often end up in shelters. Breeders rescue their respective breeds. The 
 scumbag backyard breeders have violated  a legal contract. Once they 
 are caught ( the backyard breeders , not the buyers ) are eaten alive 
 in court by cat loving attorneys . Whatever money they might have made 
 from backyard breeding is quickly wiped out in civil court. 
  
 There is nothing you can do if a backyard breeder manages to find an 
 unregistered stud and queen ( not obtained from a reputable breeder 
 who requires a legal contract ). Thankfully , that does not happen 
 very often. 
  
 >|There is little difference in looks and no difference in temperament 
 >|between " show " cats , breeder cats, and pet quality cats. 
 > 
 >I've noticed that different cats have different personalities.  This 
 >may not be a factor in winning a "show" but there may be a genetic 
 >basis to the cat's personality.  With enough DNA samples, modern 
 >science might realize a new discovery or two. 
  
 Agreed , but ALL cats have unique personalities. Temperament is a very 
 important thing to both breeders and prospective buyers of purebred 
 cats. 
  
 >|Very few people want to get involved in breeding or showing. It is an 
 >|expensive and time consuming endeavor. 
 > 
 >It can be a lot of work restricting access to your cats if you allow 
 >them to roam around in your south forty, a couple hundred miles from 
 >civilization. 
  
 I have never heard of a breeder or cat owner ( purebred or moggie) 
 allowing their cats to roam around in the south forty a couple hundred 
 miles from civilization 
  
 --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05 
  * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)