XPost: uk.d-i-y 
 From: no46764@spam.com 
  
 "Terry"  wrote in message 
 news:3FC4171F.75755663@nf.sympatico.ca... 
 > Obviously selected for maximum effect; but just to mention some 
 > 'actual life' (or should that be 'death'?) situations: 
 > A current ad on Canadian TV is a waitress who has never smoked 
 > but has spent her working life in a bar where people smoked. 
 > She has terminal lung cancer due to 'Second Hand Smoke'. 
 > Many bars and restaurants now do not allow smoking. 
  
 Yup, and bars know they now have to make an effort to clean the air. So we 
 do have an improvement. 
  
 Secondly, people without exposure to second-hand smoke also get terminal 
 lung cancer. Who is to say she wouldn't have gotten it even if she spent her 
 life working in the open air in the country? Your wording is very 
 interesting, when scientifically, there isn't really away that you can say - 
 "She has terminal lung cancer due to 'Second Hand Smoke'" and be 100% 
 accurate. 
  
 What's more accurate would be: 
  
 "She worked in a smoky atmosphere for a very long time, and it's very likely 
 that it led to her terminal lung cancer". I'm a stickler for things like 
 this, campaigners for just about everything (both sides!) use similar 
 leading wording like yours to imply connections. Like Bush every time he 
 uses the word "Terror" in relation to Iraq. Total manipulation. 
  
 But she is an extreme case. Extreme cases, or shock tactics, don't work for 
 everyone. If people don't see the "shock" around them in day-to-day life, 
 then they figure it doesn't apply to them. Of course, I'm sure they work for 
 some folk, "what price a life" and all that!! 
  
  
 > Another, a woman, not yet 60, worked for me and was an inveterate 
 > smoker. She has a slightly mentally challenged daughter who is 
 > dependent on her. Met her recently following the removal of one 
 > complete lung. 
  
 Tragic. Yes, smoking kills unfortunatly. That's never been the debate here. 
  
  
 > PS. One day my son and I stopped because there was a two to three 
 > year old used vehicle, in seemingly very good condition, posted 
 > with a more than reasonable price and low mileage. 
 > The moment we opened the door to look inside the reason was 
 > obvious. The 'stink' was awful. The driver must have been a chain 
 > smoker (maybe he had died?). 
  
 Hmm, horrible. I smoke in my car, but always with the window open. Combined 
 with an anti-tobacco air freshener, it's not smelly at all. The previous 
 owner must have smoked on mine as well, ashtray and lighter had been used. 
 Your guy must have been like a chimney, minus the open window to get rid of 
 the smoke!! You could have probably gotten rid of the smell with a little 
 work and household cleaners, and made a killing reselling it all cleaned up. 
 Given the care he took of himself (smoking in confined space = bad!), I 
 doubt the engine would have been up to much tho!! 
  
  
 > Our estimate was that due to the smoke damage the vehicle had 
 > lost 'at least' several thousand dollars due to smoke damage. If 
 > you take conservative estimates of a) The loss of value (-$4000); 
 > together with 
  
 Ignore that, it's small fry. ;-) 
  
  
 > b) The cost of cigarettes for say three years at 
 > two packs a day? (-$7500) plus higher life insurance premiums for 
 > someone in mid life, say (3 X 1000 = -$3000). Total dollars 
 > around -$15000 over three years plus health costs? 
 > If that $approx. $5000 per year figure is anywhere near correct 
 > that's a heck of a cost over a lifetime; and considering that's 
 > after paying income tax is equivalent to gross earnings of 
 > somewhere around $300,000! WOW! 
  
 Two packs a day is a lot, most smokers are probably under one. But it's 
 still a ridiculous sum. Do some calcs with groceries and rent/mortgages, and 
 you'll it's not all that bad, but still a healthy (pun intended) chunk of 
 your cash. 
  
 By the way, you can remove the "health costs" from the calculation. Even as 
 a non-smoker, you are still going to die, and likely need medical care 
 during the process. If you somehow manage survive whatever it is that gets 
 you first, you then get to spend your money you saved on residential care, 
 while you rot away. 
  
 F. 
  
 --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05 
  * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)