XPost: misc.consumers 
 From: fma@doe.carleton.ca 
  
 Terry wrote: 
 > 
 > Probably made in China or Taiwan or ........................ ???? 
  
 Yes.  How did you guess?  Actually, it's hard to find anything that is not 
 made 
 in China.  They all have similar kind of smell, to varying degrees.  But I 
 don't see why that should matter.  I presume that the design (including the 
 mix 
 of plastics) was determined by engineers that could be anywhere in the 
 world. 
 Surely plastics are tested under heat before being used for heaters??? 
 After 
 all, plastics aren't exactly stable. 
  
 > A suggestion! Plastics apparently contain 'plasticizers' which are part of 
 > the process of preventing the plastic from drying out getting brittle and 
 > cracking/breaking or succumbing as quickly to the UV in sunlight etc. Those 
 > fumes/smell, like that the horrible sickly odour in a new car etc. are 
 > rumoured (but unproven AFIK) by some to be cancer inducing? 
 > Suggest you might want to check with some Consumer Group organizations 
 using 
 > the model and type number to try and determine if a) You have a product 
 that 
 > is likely to be or has found to be defective i.e. it melts or breaks? and 
 b) 
 > Has unacceptable levels of fumes etc. which might allegedly be harmful. BTW 
 > just because it may have a UL (USA Underwriters Lab) or a CSA (Canadian 
 > Standards Assoc.) label on it does not mean it has been tested in all 
 > aspects. Apparently it means that the unit is acceptable for proper use on 
 > Canadian and/or US electrical supplies; nothing else. 
  
 I guessed as much (regarding the safety stamp applying only to electrical 
 safety).  There use to be a publication called Canadian Consumer, but no 
 more.  I looked through some Consumer Reports, but no such recalls.  Also 
 inquired at the central municipal library.  I am not at liberty to pursue 
 the safety issue much right now, as I am putting all my time into finishing 
 a thesis (or addressing issues that might impede that).  Beside, there were 
 so many models from different companies with similar problems that they 
 would probably be testing till they run out of cash.  I'm not sure how 
 easy it is to do lab tests on fumes from heated plastics, or even to 
 determine how harmful they are (as opposed to merely smelly). 
  
 > Speaking personally I would not use it. I certainly would not use it 
 > unattended or have it anywhere near children or anyone who may be sleeping. 
 > That's only a personal opinion but I do have a technical background and am 
 > able to repair most things safely. 
 > 
 > In Britain as I understand their are "Fitness for use laws". A heater that 
 > smells noticeably would there, presumably, be unacceptable and a full 
 refund 
 > could be claimed immediately. 
 > In Canada a recent experience with a CT purchased welder that went 
 defective 
 > after only three uses and 33 days from purchase has turned us off Canadian 
 > Tire products. I will not in future buy any significant products from them. 
  
 I already took it back.  The store is quite gracious.  In fact, another 
 product 
 from WalMart also the same problem, and they took it back.  It is such a 
 waste 
 because it is pretty well brand new, but their policy is that they can't 
 put it up on the shelf again.  I tried to convince Walmart that since I had 
 it for all of maybe 1.5 hours, it shouldn't be treated as "waste".  Then 
 again, 
 if it is unsafe or not fit for use, maybe it *should* suffer many returns so 
 that it can be discontinued. 
  
 I found a ceramic heater from Holmes that did not smell as bad (I don't 
 have it 
 at hand at the moment, and there was no label indicating the country of 
 manufacture!).  At Canadian Tires, there were also ceramic heaters that 
 seemed 
 to have no smell at all, but sounded like aircraft engines.  I would have 
 preferred them for their cleaner smell, but the noise was too great. 
  
 There is a trend.  Simple ceramic heaters don't smell so bad.  Nonceramic 
 heaters, or in one case, a fancy oscillating  ceramic heater, smell bad. 
 (The latter one was made in China).  One store clerk suggested that it was 
 just the heating coils in the nonceramic heaters.  If that is the case, 
 perhaps its some kind of oxidation on the coils that burn and smell bad. 
 After some time, it burns away so you don't notice it.  If you turn off 
 the heater, oxidation sets in again, and you smell it the next time you 
 turn it on.  All just speculation (and probably not scientifically sound). 
  
 I'm not sure why this wouldn't afflict ceramic heaters, as I don't know how 
 they work.  I was guessing ceramic gets too hot, so it is supported by 
 material 
 other than plastic.  So no burning plastic.  In this case, the smell from 
 nonceramic heaters is probably from the heated plastic rather than the 
 coils. 
 This makes a bit of sense, as hot coils would smell the same in both ceramic 
 and nonceramic heaters (there are metal-looking fins that zigzag between 
 the ceramic, or so it looks to my inexperienced eye). 
  
 In any case, I found a ceramic heater that smells less obnoxious than 
 my previous unit.  I still harumph and cough after a day of exposure, but 
 that might be just the hot air itself.  I will see if I can get use to it, 
 as well as to the very idea of getting use to it (maybe that's not a good 
 thing to do). 
  
 Thanks for your thoughts.  They sort of mirror my own. 
  
 Fred 
  
 --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05 
  * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)