XPost: alt.religion.islam.arabic, aus.politics, aus.religion.islam 
 XPost: uk.religion.islam 
 From: rjhardy@starnett.com 
  
 > On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 21:14:38 +0000, mariner wrote: 
 > 
 >> You know as well as I jafar that there are no 'islamic' text that support 
 >> it 
 >> per se - what I am saying is that khomeini was a dyed in the wool 
 >> muslim/islamist who had as his education a full immersion in islamic 
 >> studies 
 >> which would have influenced him deeply. 
 > 
 > If that were true, he would have known that a fatwa cannot be made without 
 > reference or knowledge of classical Islamic texts. 
 > 
 >> Now why dont YOU tell us where he got these perversions from ? 
 > 
 > From deep within his ego (Nafs) I imagine. 
  
 Having said that jafar would it not be safe to say the the other marauding 
 'egos' would be walking around in 'sheiks clothing' ? Having condemmed 
 khomeini, which I admire you for doing so I might add, what then exonerates 
 the rest of them from not being condemmed ? 
  
  
  
  
 >> and dont you think his writings would have influenced muslims ? 
 > 
 > If they followed his advice, they would be led astray from Islam. 
  
 I'm sure the vast majority of them lived and breathed his very words when he 
 was in iran. Where they led astray then ? If they were and were then 
 'brought back into the fold' who is to say that they are not being led 
 astray at this very moment by the current ayatollas ? 
  
  
  
 >> Sure as eggs are eggs he didnt get them from his English studies. 
 >> Further, as it is an abomination as you say why don't you denounce 
 >> khomeini as a pervert 
 > 
 > Khomeini was a pervert. There. Satisfied? 
  
 Thank you. But I'm not here to satisfy my ego - and  I'm not here to dig you 
 into the ground - but I am relieved that you have the balls to do what you 
 have done - and that is to condemn and denounce  one such as khomeini. 
  
 > 
 >> and then when we have ticked him off the list then we could go to the 
 >> next 'sheik' 'immam' until they are off the list - because lets face it 
 >> there are a lot of 'sheiks' and 'immams' who also deal in perversions 
 >> namely encourageing kids to blow themselves up in crowded places where 
 >> innocents are gathered 
 > 
 > Sure, as long as you can dig something up that connects what they do to 
 > Islamic teaching, otherwise we can just denounce them all. 
  
 ''By their deeds you shall know them''  Look at their deeds jafar and tell 
 me it is not excusable by any measure, your prophet mohammad didnt use 
 explosives but he certainly murdered innocents on the flimsiest of excuses. 
  
  
  
 >> - beheading people for no other reason than the pure islamic joy of 
 >> doing so. 
 > 
 > Beheading is forbidden in Islam. 
 > Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: 
 > The Prophet said, "After me (i.e. after my death), do not become 
 > disbelievers, by striking (cutting) the necks of one another. (Bukhari Vol 
 > 9, Bk 83, 7) 
  
 I think the utterance above was directed to his followers at that time - but 
 for so called unbelievers...different matter altogether as can be read by 
 the quotes below. 
  
  
 Tabari VII:97/Ishaq:368 "We carried Ka'b's head and brought it to Muhammad 
 during the night. We saluted him as he stood praying and told him that we 
 had slain Allah's enemy. When he came out to us we cast Ashraf's head before 
 his feet. The Prophet praised Allah that the poet had been assassinated and 
 complimented us on the good work we had done in Allah's Cause. Our attack 
 upon Allah's enemy cast terror among the Jews, and there was no Jew in 
 Medina who did not fear for his life.'" 
  
 Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned 
 them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina, and he had 
 trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in 
 those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 
 to 900 boys and men."  Tabari VIII:40 "The Messenger commanded that furrows 
 should be dug in the ground for the Qurayza. Then he sat down. Ali and 
 Zubayr began cutting off their heads in his presence." 
  
 Tabari VIII:122/Ishaq:515 "The Prophet gave orders concerning Kinanah to 
 Zubayr, saying, 'Torture him until you root out and extract what he has. So 
 Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah's chest, twirling it with his firestick 
 until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who 
 beheaded him." 
  
  
 Ishaq:368 "Ka'b's body was left prostrate [humbled in submission]. After his 
 fall, all of the Nadir Jews were brought low. Sword in hand we cut him down. 
 By Muhammad's order we were sent secretly by night. Brother killing brother. 
 We lured him to his death with guile [cunning or deviousness]. Traveling by 
 night, bold as lions, we went into his home. We made him taste death with 
 our deadly swords. We sought victory for the religion of the Prophet." 
  
 Now there is plenty more where this came from jafar - does make you think 
 doesnt it ? 
 The last four words of the quoted paragraph  speak volumes dont you think ? 
 ''religion of the prophet''  should'nt it have read 'religion of allah' This 
 further strengthens the world wide view that the so called religious texts 
 of the koran were not divinely inspired but merely the thoughts of a 
 delusional arab who sought power and wealth from those weaker than himself. 
  
  
  
  
  
 > Jafar Calley 
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